Talent is at the heart of strategy. Why? Because people make strategy happen.
So here we are, with Svitlana Bielushkina, Head of Talent Management, and Hanne Lindbæk, actress, author and executive coach, to present you the new talent initiative and gain input from the board members: Adel Al-Saleh, CEO of T-Systems and Birgit Bohle, CHRO of Deutsche Telekom.
What did they discuss, and how do talents differ?
Svitlana Bielushkina
Talent is at the heart of strategy. Why? Because people make strategy happen. I work in Deutsche Telekom in global HR, and I’m very happy to have you with us in this first episode of a human centric broadcast, where we will talk about talent. So, let me share why we started this initiative: Because, very often, in corporate environments, the words we say, such as “talent” or “customer succession” for example, they become a lingo, they become a buzzword and lose their meaning. So, this is an attempt to slow down, and to actually have a very meaningful, honest, and human conversation of what we mean by talent in here. And I’m really excited and honored to have our first guests. We have Adel Al-Sale, who is leading to systems in Deutsche Telekom. And we have Birgit Bohle, who’s leading HR in Deutsche Telekom. And I have a partner in crime. I have a co-host tonight, Hanne Lindbæk. Do you want to say something about yourself?
Hanne Lindbæk
I absolutely do, Svitlana. Thank you. It’s still hard for me to decide what to call myself. Nonetheless, after 20 years of curiosity and journeying through corporate, NGOs and politics, I have become a communication coach. I work for executives. Additionally, I am a performing artist, having worked as an actress for many years. The stuff that I do for a living is the subject of a book I wrote. As a result, I have intimate knowledge of quite a few different companies over the years. As a result, we are here today with Deutsche Telekom, a company I have worked for over the past few years. What can you say?
So, there’s one thing you know you cannot do? That’s it. We are going back to this idea of talent, huh? We’re going back to the idea of talent as a buzzword in organizations and kind of going beneath the layers of that. I love what you said initially, Svitlana, about strategy, taking you there. What was the original thinking when you guys started talking about the status quo?
Svitlana Bielushkina
I think, overall Hanne, we had a discussion with Birgit, I think it started last year, just before the pandemic happens. We had a quest for talent, we had a number of initiatives. But they were not leading in the yielding results we really wanted to see. So, we wondered why; let’s just pause and say why it doesn’t work out, and we had a few conversations within our business leaders and HR trying to understand the core of it. What we discovered is actually very simple. Maybe the magic is in simplicity; it really has to be in the core of strategy. So you have to understand what Deutsche Telekom is to become in a couple of years, and what capabilities you need to have. And you have to be transparent about it to people. So, you have to contextualize.
Hanne Lindbæk
So and then, of course, we have to discuss today about talent; what is talent? And am I talented, or am I not talented? And that’s not all of this. Ok, I have talent, but to do what?
Svitlana Bielushkina
For what I think very often is that, in many organizations, when you talk about talent, you talk about a generic word. The talent, is that, what do you have a passion for? When we all graduate from high school, we go to the university, and want to make a difference in life by going for engineering or going for art. So you have a passion for something. So we need to answer questions. Thus, one of the changes we are making is actually for what talent really is; to be clear on that.
Hanne Lindbæk
So if I found myself if I was actually an employee, somewhere in the world of Deutsche Telekom, and I wanted to apply to this program, or I wanted someone to notice me as a talent, or I’m guessing I’m probably too old?
Svitlana Bielushkina
No, not, of course you’re not. It’s when you talk about talent, you talk about the younger, hungry people, who are around 25 years old, and they really want to go out and conquer the world, and they have much more energy. That’s the fact, that’s true fact. But, at the same time, we want to see a “diverse talent”. If you need to have a chief architect, and you need to have talent for the chief architecture, enterprise architecture in the telco is, by default, a senior position. And you need to invest your time and energy in that. So, you might be 50 years plus and be a talent for a very senior expert role. So, diversity, is there. It’s not just the younger. No, you’re never, never too old!
Hanne Lindbæk
I think it’s a very interesting question in a lot of organizations I work in these days, because I find that the younger ones, or at least some younger ones I’ve met, kind of looking at the older ones who are very often the leaders, and they’re looking at them going, Oh, I wish I could tell them to do differently. And then they added politeness or not wanting to seem arrogant, they’ll kind of not go there. They weren’t communicated. And now, the older ones are going. I’m not sure if I’m on top of all this new stuff. I don’t know. Right? So there seems to be a kind of gap row going, who’s leading us? It’s an interesting question. And finally, of course, we have to think of any company that takes it upon themselves to set aside a budget, to set aside energy in order to grow new talent. At the end of the day, I hear the frustration of that energy, not going anywhere, unless there’s placement. And unless that talent hopefully ends up in your company and doesn’t go to another county. So tell me a little bit about that. What are your thoughts on this one?
Svitlana Bielushkina
And there’s the ultimate outcome, the talent management that we need to hire, because we need to place those people by the end of it. So if you take totality, and you hire, let’s say, 80%, inside Deutsche Telekom, you want to cover 30% of his talents, we have to walk the talk, and place the biggest talents in the biggest jobs and take risk. And I think we should aim for with boldness, invitations, and emplacement. And there’s one more thing I wanted to mention on talent. I think also what we want to work with is actually treat people as adults, I would say. And very often the child processes we usually see in corporations, they are more or less a child or manage driven, you know, when I will be judging your talents will discuss, and you will be nominated somewhere. And that’s super important. You might just have to discuss talent. But we want to go some other place, we want to test out also self nomination. And if we are transparent with what we need, if we state what we need. And we consider people can relate themselves to this, they will apply, and then come on the journey with us.
Hanne Lindbæk
And that I love about this particular initiative. So there’s no sitting around, waiting passively to be signed on to a program.
Svitlana Bielushkina
No, of course, we will have the assessment, we will have the discussion. It will be some discussions and dialogue. And you know, to be our assessments, maybe, but by the end, you have a chance to raise your hand.
Hanne Lindbæk
Yeah, I’m just realizing we’ve taken these two people hostage. Before. Like to hear more. Let’s, open up a little, we will allow them to speak, shall we switch? Yes. If I may start with you. First, Adel Al-Saleh, I’m taking the chance of just going by first name. So, Adel. Yeah, the interesting thing about social hierarchy and meeting someone in your position, is the following: we get very curious, when you guys sit around tables, and you decide on strategies like these, I’m sure there’s like thorough thinking behind it. And part of what our ambition is here to do is, of course, to try to go beneath the surface and understand the thinking behind it. And also, therefore get your message out to the people out there. So, if you were to look at, what are you looking for these days, in T systems in terms of talent in order to do well in the markets that you’re in? Take us there, please?
Adel Al-Saleh
Yeah, great. Well, talent, to me, is kind of like a never ending journey. Right? You never reach the end, but you got to keep working at it. So it is a very passionate subject within Deutsche Telekom and T-Systems. When it comes to T-Systems specifically, we’re looking for people who are passionate about it. We’re looking for folks who are passionate about transformation, passionate about digitization, love doing those things. And, you know, obviously, when you think about that, you start thinking the following: Well, does that mean you’re looking for software engineers, for architects for excellent system integration skills? And the answer is yes, yes, and yes! But we’re also looking for talents who are passionate about clients who are passionate about outcomes, who are not just passionate about a particular field but passionate about making that field successful for the clients. That is what we’re looking for. That’s the essence!
Hanne Lindbæk
So if there’s a core word in what you just tell me, this is the word passion. You might have a certain CV, you might have a certain background. But, at the end of the day, it’s the mindset with which you go to work every day. That’s what you’re addressing?
Adel Al-Saleh
Well, we want people to love what they’re doing, right. Because, the challenges we tackle are very difficult; clients in the middle of transformation, clients trying to reengineer their business models, trying to solve very difficult problems that they’re facing where they’re and more. So, we want people to come to work, loving what they’re doing. Yeah. That’s what we’re looking for.
Hanne Lindbæk
Isn’t that interesting? So at the end of the day, what matters is passion about what you’re doing, not having the best CV?
Adel Al-Saleh
Yes. Exactly.
Hanne Lindbæk
So you’re looking from mindset and attitude!
Adel Al-Saleh
For us, mindset, over the last, I’d say, two to three years became kind of the lingo in the company. We, as a company, know that, in order to drive the right behaviors, in order to drive the right outcomes, you must start with the mindset. You know, you have to have that growth, outward mindset to be able to make a difference. I just wanted to highlight that!
Hanne Lindbæk
I know! So, I was telling you, before we started today, that I run a small company. So I’m an entrepreneur, and I run a small business. And I always say, you know, I can’t afford for anyone on my team, to not have the right mindset. We’d be out of work in three months. And, sometimes, that feels like a luxury. Because it feels like I can rely on each one of them. It’s not always like that in bigger corporations, is it? It’s easier to get stuck, it’s easier to go with drift. Furthermore, it’s easier to become passive, for a multitude of reasons. This is stuff for another episode, I think. So this is our next up. If I ask you, as a leader now in your own career, and in your life, I’m sure plenty of times there must have appeared new people on your team and your life, like: “Oh,who is this guy?” “Who is this girl?”, and I’m sure you’ve worked at growing talents. How do you go about that as a leader? What are some core tricks?
Adel Al-Saleh
Well, first, we always keep our aperture very wide and open to look for these kinds of talent. To either see them shine within, you know, normal activities, business activities, and to demonstrate their capability very quickly to us, and then figure out how do we capture those individuals and help them progress in their careers.
Hanne Lindbæk
I think you’re mentioning something really important already. So you’re saying that people will have to show their capabilities? To not fall into the trap of shyness or not wanting to show you that they’re good enough or right. So having said, what you’re saying is that let’s ask people to be bold and show what they’re good at?
Adel Al-Saleh
Yes. You know, every human being has a different personality. Some people are extroverts and are very comfortable standing up and showing stuff, and others are not so much. But it doesn’t mean they’re not talented. So, we’re not necessarily look for people who are outspoken. I love those people as well. Yeah. But we’re looking for people who can really shine in what they do. And show the passion about what they’re doing. It is what we’re looking for. And then, well, can they accelerate? Can they go further? Can they grow? Can we give them more? And that’s what we really look for when we’re trying to evaluate a talent.
Birgit Bohle
We also want them to have ambition!
Hanne Lindbæk
That’s a wonderful way of saying it. So even if I’m introvert and shy, if I still somehow can show the ambition that I have to do the work well, I can make it. That’s what we’re after, doing the work well. And that leads to the desired result. So I love how we ended up with this idea of passion and mindset and personal responsibility for showing up in the right way. Well, that’s remarkable. And here we are, with this word talent development. Do you guys actually still believe in global initiatives such as these on?
Birgit Bohle
Yes, I do believe so. Because I think it’s good to become transparent, in order to really give our talents a chance to establish themselves to be seen to be heard. We want to be the leading European telco. So that’s a buzzword. But, what does that mean in terms of skills and capabilities of the business needs? So we require software engineering, we require data science, we require people who are digital, commercial, all those are, across segments. It’s not only within T-Systems, it’s in our German business, it’s in our European that coast, it’s in the US. So from a strategic skill perspective, that is one good reason to have a global approach because these skills we require across. And, also for the talents to have a community to understand they’re not alone, we are in a group, we can actually share our experiences, we can learn from each other. That’s important!
Hanne Lindbæk
That sounds right!
Adel Al-Saleh
Look, you mentioned being an entrepreneur, and you have your company, and you’re an entrepreneur, you are the CEO, you are the finance leader, you are the HR leader, you are the talent developer, you are everything. In a large company, you need a framework, right? The framework doesn’t make things happen for you, but the framework gives you a structure to encourage managers to encourage our talents to actually progress. So we have a framework that allows us now to identify talents and have a framework to encourage managers to select them. We have a framework for self nomination, we have a framework for development of that talent. So yes, you do need a framework. But the framework alone doesn’t make it a success.
Hanne Lindbæk
No. So, there has to be a framework. In order to move stirring ideas and develop organizations, there has to be some initiative. Ultimately, what I see when I look at these things of strategies isn’t successful companies, right? I have seen many strategies, and then you take it out to the employees, and they are like, “Oh, yeah, here we go again, new strategy, whatever, you know”, it’s going to take a few years and then it’s over. That’s the truth, isn’t it? Having said that, one of the things I see, when I observe people being successful, implementing strategic initiatives, is staying capability, people staying with a message, staying as if there was power in that, staying until it is done, and so he was hoping for this initiative. It’s a brilliant question, isn’t it? How do we actually make sure that these initiatives actually are worthwhile? Birgit Bohle, over to you. So if we talk about your career, if I can take you there? Was there ever a time when you were spotted as a talent? I’m sure you were.
Birgit Bohle
Yes, but it wasn’t called talent at that point in time. But actually, my first position after graduating from university was, as it was called, a high potential person. And it was a small group of peers that were selected. And in that sense, I was in a talent pool. Yeah. Early on.
Hanne Lindbæk
And the definition process; someone is looking at you going. Oh, that’s interesting. So now we’ve talked a lot about passion thus, let’s look at the perspective of having some kind of background, some kind of theoretical background, some kind of schooling. I mean, it does have to come into the picture somehow. Yeah, I’m aware that you, of course, are an economist. Yeah. And now you are leading HR. I find that very fascinating. I’m sure it’s a fascinating combination. Though, how does your being an economist fit into the current role that you have in the company?
Birgit Bohle
Well, we’re coming back to your first question, you could say, I was chosen as a talent into that position. But, it’s not all about experience. That’s the notion of also a forward-looking on a potential perspective. So, what’s your perspective? Future perspective that we need to take? And from a strategic perspective, again, for us, it’s important, you know, whom do we need? Which capabilities? Which abilities do we require? What ambitions are we looking for? What mindset attitude are we looking for? Yeah, that’s, what we are trying to match. And it all comes from the business needs.
Hanne Lindbæk
It comes from the business needs, that is so essential in here, isn’t it? Which is also why when I heard about your background and profile, I was so happy! Hard skills meet soft skills, in a way. I think it’s so important that you understand the commercial underflow here and understand how to deliver on that.
Birgit Bohle
And that was a sweet line, our starting point, was “a talent for what”? And that’s, and when programs why or when, right, when you said, Okay, how will we know that they were successful at the end of the talent program? How do we know that we have actually achieved bringing talents into the most influential and the most needed positions?
Hanne Lindbæk
I even work in some companies where they tell me that it’s easier to go to a competing company, it’s easier to see those advertisements, than it is to actually see the advertisements within their own company. If the company is big enough; you know, that’s why that shouldn’t happen. So as a member of the board, there’s a thinking behind all of this. There is a strategic thought. I mean, we’ve covered a lot of it already. Is there any dimension of the talent initiative that we haven’t mentioned?
Svitlana Bielushkina
And so you said, you know, we need to have the framework in this bigger organizations that would help us make it, you know, come to success, but the framework itself will not bring success?
Adel Al-Saleh
Well, the framework brings kind of the discipline of how you go about looking for talent, and how do you go about it, it also brings you the tools and the content, to actually go and execute what you’re trying to do. If we leave each organization, whether it’s each group within the group of Deutsche Telekom, or a department within each of the groups, to do their own thing or ontology will have chaos? Or do you want to have a consistent way of thinking, How do I open up the doors? How do I then build a program? What kind of development tools do I need to offer? The program helps you execute what? But it must start from the leaders to adopt this right, to make it a priority. You ask things in the board, every board meeting. We have a talent discussion, as a matter of fact, for all important placements within Deutsche Telekom. Yeah, we bring them to the table. And we have a dialogue around the boardroom of, you know, who is best fit for this job? And who are the candidates for this, and why did we select these candidates? It’s a very healthy dialogue.
Birgit Bohle
Let’s also be honest, because among ourselves, because this is one of the key challenges always to have the right trade-off between achievements experience past performance. Versus, you know, potential for what you love; it’s risk taking. And, if you ask, in addition to our talent program and the framework, and that’s really to us as leaders, it’s courage. It’s courage and risk taking that we need to take in order to actually place a bet on a person who has maybe a bit less experience and achievements.
Hanne Lindbæk
So, the eyes and the sensitivity to actually define talent. And the idea behind this, of course, is there such a thing as a non-talented person? Like, do we have extraordinary people and ordinary people here? I think you’ve answered very beautifully today because what you keep coming back to guys is the word passion, and attitude and mindset and heart. But we had a chat about this, didn’t we? Very good. Would you like to go there?
Birgit Bohle
Yeah, I mean, the question on “Is there someone without talent?”, you know, when you asked that to me, an hour ago, maybe I was like, stumbling a bit across, and I thought about my son. He is autistic, has some learning difficulties, and he wants to be a wasteman. And he will be the most reliable, most passionate wasteman in the world.
That is his passion. And when I asked him, “Why do you like it?”, he said, “It’s an important task”. And I think this attitude that we all have certain abilities, and that when we act according to our abilities, we perform with passion, and contribute to something critical.
We’ve come up in Deutsche Telekom, with our overall purpose, and we won’t stop until everyone is connected. And my dream is that all our employees understand their part in that purpose, their element of how to bring that to life.
Hanne Lindbæk
Well, I wish him all the luck in the world. And what I’m hearing is that I hope we are creating passion out there. It’s been quite a passionate conversation!
Svitlana Bielushkina
So we have a few minutes for the questions.
Birgit, what really makes you really happy every day, what makes up your day?
Birgit Bohle
I really like working with people and to sometimes feel like I have been living up to my passion. And by that, to also actually contributing to our purpose; that makes me happy.
Svitlana Bielushkina
Wonderful answer. Really exciting. So you, Adel, people really want to know what motivated you in the beginning of your career? What drove you as a person.
Adel Al-Saleh
While looking at the beginning of my career, I am looking back a long, long time ago. Honestly, it was, firstly, just getting a job. That’s what motivated me to be a professional. After school and university, my first objective was to get a job and become a professional. But as that evolved, my passion really was all about creating new things and results. I wanted to be associated with things that help the company. And by helping the company, it’s usually meant I was successful, to make a customer successful. And that just drove me. And if there was a day when a project got, you know, in trouble, and we were not delivering on client’s expectations, that drove me harder, to make sure that we will do everything we can.
Hanne Lindbæk
That’s wonderful! Passion is the idea of today. Yeah. Passionate about even just being of use. That’s what I’m hearing. Becoming useful. You know, Svetlana, if people want to apply to this now, how can they do it? Where’s the signup?
Svitlana Bielushkina
Since this is really our try inside Deutsche Telekom. Check it out. We are building also a website where you can see more information; it is going to be easily accessible for internal employees of Deutsche Telekom. And that’s as easy as it gets.
Hanne Lindbæk
Thank you guys!
To find out the deeper meaning of talent, its human aspects and business environments, subscribe to the human centric podcasts and stay tuned.
