The commitment to learning is a lifetime one; how can colleagues work together to achieve this goal?
In this episode, our hosts Svitlana and Hanne meet Shakil who founded “LEX” – Learning from Experts. A grassroot initiative at Deutsche Telekom, where employees share their knowledge with other colleagues. Shakil talks about generosity as a principle for learning, his passion towards the project and why it has already been copied outside Deutsche Telekom.
What did they discuss about learning revolution?
Hanne Lindbæk
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the human centric podcast. I have the delight today of introducing the first of two episodes where we will be exploring kind of grassroot phenomenons that are pretty unique to Deutsche Telekom. I can’t wait to take you to these people that we’re going to meet here. If passion ever had a kind of place, where it started growing, this is it, guys. So, meet real people who actually care about what they do for a living and about the future of their company.
Today, we’re visiting this guy called Shakil. And Shakil actually was the founding father of this phenomenon called Lex; Lex is an international employee network in which colleagues share their knowledge with other colleagues. It is like a peer to peer learning thing, as far as I understand. It’s based on volunteerism, it’s based on commitment, and it’s based on collegiality, which are some of the phenomenons we explore in this episode. Furthermore, it has become quite a bit of success. You’ll hear more about that too. And yeah, it’s a little gem, isn’t it? Svitlana, it is time!
Svitlana Bielushkina
See, this episode is about how to create a change and how to create a movement inside an organization, for a good purpose.
Hanne Lindbæk
Yes. And as we speak, what they’ve created here, is actually being copied outside, guys. So, enjoy.
Svitlana Bielushkina
Welcome to the human centric podcast; it’s Svitlana, looking inside out from Deutsche Telekom. And Hanne is here with me, looking into the corporate world outside in, and I’m very honored. And I’m very pleased to have a guest, Shakil, who’s IT professional in Deutsche Telekom and. if I need to describe him with one word, it will be passion. And I think passion led Shakil to create one of the largest, I will say, the largest community in Deutsche Telekom. And this community is about learning and knowledge sharing and community events even beyond is known and famous not just in Deutsche Telekom, but also in the outside world. Welcome!
Shakil
Thank you. Happy to be here.
Hanne Lindbæk
Shakil, it’s nice to meet you. I can see that you look like you are so experienced with being on podcasts by now. Are you doing quite a few of them these days?
Shakil
We did quite a few in the recent past. Yeah.
Hanne Lindbæk
I must say, I’ve just got to start by saying, congratulations. I’m so eager to dive into the topic of this phenomenon. Take us to your passion. What is it that is so important for you in here?
Shakil
I think the most important part for me is that I’m somehow able to contribute to this company, you know, to add value. And not only that, we’re also helping people. We’re giving a stage to people who were probably looking for a stage. We’re finding talents, hidden diamonds. And it feels wonderful to be part of this. Let’s call it a success story where we find great people who want it to be found and are able to share the knowledge and make other people great as well.
Hanne Lindbæk
I’m not actually part of the telecom, and I’m being the curious onlooker. If I take the perspective of everyone who doesn’t work for Deutsche Telekom, if you were to explain Lex to me, just in a couple of easy sentences, what would they be?
Shakil
Well, Lex is showing that there’s a lot of power at Deutsche Telekom. There was probably a time when we did not really know where this power was. And we are here to show where the power is and make that power, this knowledge, accessible in a very easy, fast, simple way.
Hanne Lindbæk
So this is about learning from experts. And it’s like peer learning, am I right?
Shakil
That’s what it is. And some people sometimes get scared of the word expert, saying I’m not an expert. “How can I be an expert” and I tell them, do you know something? Would you like to share it? Welcome to the world of experts. We’re not looking for professionals. We’re looking for nice people who know something and want to help and share what they know about.
Hanne Lindbæk
I just love this so much and I love the enthusiasm that is rounding this whole project. It is not just beaming from you, it’s beaming from all the others, isn’t it also who are digging in here is Lex that a phenomenon such as Lex important extra important in the times that we are in.
Shakil
I think we started way ago to do what is really happening now. Because you know, once COVID19 started, we had everything on hand, we had digital knowledge sharing already in place. And we were really fast to set up, even exchange calls where people could just come in and talk about their current problems and find help and share problems. And this also helps. So we came up with a lot of voluntary offers from colleagues, by colleagues, for other colleagues in English, in German, we had regular cards. They were really, really successful in the beginning. We also help to show people how to use these digital tools, which became the new normal, you know, before maybe you were using a pen and a piece of paper, you know, the whiteboard was really on the wall. And now you had to use a digital whiteboard, suddenly, a tool called Microsoft OneNote, which you were not familiar with. And we had those easy, accessible knowledge, these learning sessions, open to everybody and hundreds of colleagues came and learned in a fast and easy way, and now are using those tools successfully.
Hanne Lindbæk
It’s just amazing. I want to participate in at least one of those classes. It sounds like we all need this stuff these days, don’t we? And so, there’s a spirit in here that I want to take as to how would you describe the philosophy, the spirit that lies at the heart of this project?
Shakil
I think it’s just three words, sharing is caring, and who loves to share, to take somehow care of other colleagues. And it’s somehow blossoming. I should not use this word. We used to use this word. We’re somehow infecting people, yeah, with this sharing culture, but it’s a positive infection. And we see a lot of people, what can I tell you? You know, there was one guy said, I saw my colleague doing a session on this. Yeah, if he can do it, I can do it as well. I said, “Let’s go for it”. This is a nice story of people in called suddenly find out that they also know something about it. And then they take over in the call or create another call and help the person who was having the call. So there is no competition in this. It’s like luck. When you share luck, it doesn’t get less. And this is actually the phenomenon which is behind this, like I told you the stage for people to come forward, share what you know, help others. And the thankfulness, you know, in our calls. I mean, how can I tell you I also did on the training on the job, you went to another city, suddenly you find yourself with 30 other people in the room, and half of them are like, you know, you thought they got punished? Yeah, all calls, you can just feel in the WebEx call, even though you don’t see the people, there’s some kind of positive energy that they came voluntarily.
Hanne Lindbæk
They want you, you’re saying so many important things, right? Now, I’m going to kind of try to roll back the film and try to highlight some of them. If I interpret you correctly, part of what you’re addressing is that when people there to take the microphone there to share their knowledge, even as you say, it could be really creepy to be called an expert, right? Who wants to be called an expert? It’s really creepy. And then yet, when you dare to share, then what happens is that, we actually stop combating each other and there’s a spirit of generosity.
Shakil
That’s what it is, I could not have said it better. That is so darn interesting.
Hanne Lindbæk
That is very intriguing to me. Because it means we can use this. You know, sometimes you talk about the rat race at work, right? And how we’re all kind of beating to get to the top and everything. And this sounds like a good medicine against that kind of fear or thinking.
Shakil
That’s what it is, you know, it’s like, being part of somebody else’s success, and just feel like you’re also successful. And God, yeah, I want this to apply to everyone.
Hanne Lindbæk
I do know that some people out there have heard about this phenomenon. And they have started copying you guys. Isn’t that so?
Shakil
Yeah, I mean, copying doesn’t really sound nice. We have colleagues within this company, creating smaller teams, communities, because they say the other ones are too big. And we just want to, let’s say, stay in our technical department, and the things we teach to others are just valuable to our colleagues. It’s not a closed group, but it makes sense. And we also have colleagues from outside of Deutsche Telekom, for example, at Audi, Volkswagen, maybe Commerce Bank and more. And we also meet and exchange on How to work together, share stories and ideas on how to actually use synergies. The best would be an ideal world, our people from Deutsche Telekom holding sessions at Audi, there are people coming to our company teaching us, you know how they do things. And we learn from each other and not share secrets from the company, but sharing just methods the way we work.
Hanne Lindbæk
So, if anyone’s listening in for the first time, I can share straightaway that this is part of why I’m so proud to be part of this Deutsche Telekom podcast, because you guys are actually choosing to share even this, aren’t you? This is actually published to the whole world, which is I think such an act of generosity trying to just create a conversation. So that’s part of the phenomenon. That’s part of what we’re moving into here, isn’t it? How knowledge is no longer something you can hold on to because it’s going to die fast anyway. But sharing creates a more intelligent conversation, and it helps us all to move forward. As an external consultant, you know, someone who delivers, in a way, knowledge to any organization, I find it’s so important that we are all generous these days. None of us knows the truth. We all co-create it the entire time, right? Oh, well, thank you. So you’re telling me that when people are copying it around the company, and even inside your company, it doesn’t make you feel threatened?
Shakil
No, in one way, of course, first, you think, “Hey, what is going on? Why are they doing this? Why don’t we all come together”, but, in the next moment, you think it makes sense. And then we cooperate with these colleagues, we learn from our mistakes, and we cooperate with them. There is sharing, caring, and we help each other and it works fine. So, I mean, it’s totally fine.
Svitlana Bielushkina
I’m thinking that in our first podcast episode of human centric podcasts we explored what is a talent. And only one of those, you know, elements of the definition was multiplying your knowledge, really being able to share and being generous with others. And it can be in different forms. It can be coaching, mentorship, being present, having a session in here, and I find it really fascinating because Shakil started, not a project but a movement. It’s a community, it is a movement that goes beyond Deutsche Telekom. But practically Shakil, if you explain how does it work? So is it the platform is which, you know, is this group? Is it a LinkedIn? And if I want to share my knowledge, for example, about talent management, how can I do it?
Shakil
Well, we have a platform, within this company, we have a social enterprise network. So we are using a tool which is already introduced and accessible to each and everybody. So we did not introduce a new tool. It’s open to each and everybody, so everybody can join. And in one way, it’s a platform. On the other way, of course, it’s a movement, it’s a service, but however, you look at it, and it’s open to each and everybody, you are more than welcome to come and join us and do a session. And tell us about the talent program, which would be really nice, because in this way, you could also reach out to colleagues who are maybe not that familiar, or maybe colleagues who are not inborn, maybe don’t get to see these things, in an easier way than colleagues maybe working in a tea shop or in a call center, or, you know, friends from the technical departments, making sure that the client connections are all up and running. And we really encourage people because it takes courage to take part, not everybody’s first willing to share. Yeah, and then the other problem is also that not everybody feels that he is possibly allowed to share, because we have to really set up this learning mentality. I think this is a very important topic that people feel like sharing also feel like learning. Yeah. Am I also part of this cannot take part who had to have to ask, is this going to get paid for? Or is this off time? Is it working out? So there are many open questions, also connected to this. Nevertheless, everybody is more than welcome to come in and share any topic he likes to share. We have agile in 60 minutes, we also have laughter yoga, we have after work sessions like boxing, self-defense, and there’s much more in planning. And, once COVID is done, we will also start meeting physically. You know, I’m getting goosebumps, unfortunately cannot see it, but it feels perfect to be part of this movement. You know, people call me the founder, but I feel just a part of this, because it takes all these people to do this session. I’m like, maybe the gardener and the platform is the garden. But the nice flowers, these are the people who are taking part!
Svitlana Bielushkina
And how many members do you have?
Shakil
The numbers are really climbing. It’s getting more and more day by day. And currently, the last time I looked today, it was 19,250 members. So we really had a big increase in one week by 250 members, we never had that. And we have more than 20,000 followers. Members, and followers. It’s a technical question. So members are people who can actively take part to edit content in the platform. So you could say we have possibly over 19,000 possible session owners. Yeah. People who can create content if they want to.
Svitlana Bielushkina
This is amazing, and let’s look at what is happening in the fields of education. So education becomes really democratized. The way we think about learning and education process is changing. What are your views on the future of learning and education?
Shakil
I personally think, and I hope, that learning will become a more private matter that people will really see it as an opportunity to grow. And not always put it on, let’s call it the employer. You know, if you want to grow, you got to do something, let’s say a few sports man, you want to become better in your sports, you got to train. It’s the same thing here. We call it learning. You want to grow, you have to learn. It’s also your self responsibility. Most of us are really active, you know, they run marathons, they play soccer, play tennis, and all these people who do it, let’s say, as more than a hobby, it’s hard work, it’s taking a lot of training. And the more I train, even in my off time, the better I will get and not just look at what is internally offered. Also, there’s a lot of knowledge on YouTube. There’s a lot of knowledge everywhere. Talk to your neighbors, talk to people, you know, read newspapers, anything you can. You know, some people say you cannot not communicate, I would say you cannot not learn, yeah, you’re always making experiences, you’re always learning if you want to, if you don’t want to. And if you do it in an active way, you can just get better.
Hanne Lindbæk
Yeah, I had this example in my life, because I really love knitting, you know, knitting, like creating sweaters and stuff. And then suddenly, I realized there’s been a revolution because in the old days, it was really hard to know how to knit. And there’s all these different stitches and all of this stuff to it, right. And now you can just go online, and there’s all these brilliant tutorials. So this thing, it’s taking the hierarchy out of learning.
Shakil
I would like to add something more. We have so many opportunities today that we just take it for granted, or just don’t notice it. Yeah, my father used, he grew up in Pakistan, used to tell us, in our old days, we used to sit under the streetlamp and learn because we had no electricity. You guys have so many opportunities, why don’t you use them. And I think that’s not untrue. And we need to grab it. And we need to be thankful and really use it. Because you never know if some of these things will still be available tomorrow. So just make the best use out of it. And also share, share and tell others about what you learned and encourage them also to learn.
Hanne Lindbæk
God, you’re inspiring. We’ve got goosebumps with you, Shakil, like, I think there are a lot of growth mindsets in here. It’s so easy to say that, and it’s so hard the older we get. And the more experience we have, and the more titles we have, you know, when you get to a certain level, you’re supposed to know it all. There shouldn’t be any question marks anymore. And I so think what you’re doing here is challenging that, and I love it. And I love you for that. I think it’s really, really touching to listen to. And so I know that you hate talking about yourself, and you keep kind of going, it’s not about me, it’s about the movement, and I totally agree. I’m really, really sorry to do this to you, because I have you just kind of tell us what I’m holding. How can we go there without you getting too embarrassed? You need to tell us your story.
Shakil
Yes. Please ask your questions. I will tell you everything.
Hanne Lindbæk
So you started off working where you were in Deutsche Telekom. Take us to that place and situation and tell us the story of how it started.
Shakil
It started in 2017. In 2017, I was working for Deutsche Telekom IT, and I was a member of the transformation program, which got introduced in that year, which is still in place. And I was a member of one of those streams and of the core team learning. And we were 14 people out of five different countries. And the meeting started, they were once a month, they started in summer, in our third meeting, the topic was, let’s find topics we want to work on. So this was our task to find topics we wanted to work on. So there was no top from the top, somebody telling us you got to work on this, this and this, and that. And my colleagues, you know, they came up with some great topic like expert Korea, business, English, and so on, and so forth. And I was sitting there, like, hey, I want to also name a topic. And suddenly, you know, a light went up in my head, you know, like the next slide and, and I was like, wait a moment, I got a topic, I’ve seen that you guys are struggling with the use of our social enterprise network. I know somebody who can help us. And let me just prepare something. In our next meeting, I’ll just show you what I did in this was the do you call it the bird, the hour, whatever this was, yeah, of legs, you know, little tiny movement group for 20 people. And we never thought that it will become this big. So actually, the basic idea was to provide an expert list of people, call them the nice people who knows something and like to share something. And this is how everything started.
Hanne Lindbæk
Oh, what a story of inspiration right there.
Shakil
There was no project, you got to do this. There was nobody seeing how to do it. The first months, you know, I was just doing it by myself. And then suddenly, colleagues came because it just got bigger. And after the first few successes, more colleagues joined voluntarily, and we all worked voluntarily on this, and it just started, there was never a plan, you know, where to go or how to do it. And from people who started using it, we got the ideas, what else to add, and how to make it bigger and better.
Svitlana Bielushkina
And I think he’s one of the people that who says thank God is Monday. You know, when you love what you do, you’re really in the flow. And I think that’s what you should do.
Shakil
I do. And they feel it at home, to be honest.
Hanne Lindbæk
Yes. So we could have another podcast about work-life balance, for sure. But in the meantime, here, you are actually wanting to volunteer your time. So I’m going back to where our conversation started. Like there’s a real, unbelievable passion in you, it’s not for show, it seems to be absolutely real. It is. If I interpret you a little, I think that that passion is linked to this idea of taking away the hierarchy and the fear out of learning.
Shakil
Yeah, I think it meets maybe a bit more than that, you know, I like to share more. And I like to help, and I have learned it in my first part-time job. And to myself, you know, whenever I’ll have a chance, I’ll make sure that people I’m going to train, they will never complain. And, you know, from this is my story and I made sure that all the people I trained you know, I told them, you know, you can always ask me something, if I get mad at some point, tell me you said, Hey, you can always ask me something. Yeah, don’t get mad. And the more you invest in training people, and I was for a very long time, part-time and full time in the restaurant business, you know, the more you really get out of it. And it’s the same here. And I also say, you know, in our world today, we cannot really afford to have people working on topics if they don’t fully feel like you know, they know what they’re doing. We all need to make sure that they know what they’re doing. Otherwise, you know, we’re all losing.
Hanne Lindbæk
And that’s in saying that in the future in post COVID landscapes out there in the corporate world and in the organization’s, I hope that the days are over, when we sit back and kind of go oh and other corporate training oh how boring, right. And we actually make sure that our trainings are purposeful and useful and efficient. And that they do indeed help us learn and help us grow and help us get to the next level. So that’s part of the revolution you’re creating here. And that feels really exciting to me. So if we kind of dare to look into the future, if we try and kind of pretend as though we have a big crystal ball in front of us, and we’re able to look into it, five years from now, what could lax be? What does it create?
Shakil
See, we have more than two and 1000 employees all over the world. And I would say we won’t stop until everybody knows about us. So we have now 20,000 followers, so there’s a long way to go. And at least they know what it is. And then they can still decide how to use it. And of course, you know, we want to connect more to the outside world invite colleagues from outside of Deutsche Telekom to hold sessions more than now. And also maybe, maybe, you know, we are just creating a new business for Deutsche Telekom. Maybe at some point, we can rent those experts maybe connected to the product, I would say sky’s the limit. Possibly this start possibly we’re finding coaches, future coaches, future trainers. And let’s see how we can make best use of this. And also, you know, we’re trying to also stop some kind of brain drain, we started an alumni club at legs. We want to keep in touch with those colleagues who are now going into pension time retirement or were leaving the company and still want to be in touch with us. And this is also an idea started very small. And we have 20 people now in that little group. And they’re doing sessions, even after retirement. How cool is that? Yeah.
Hanne Lindbæk
So Svetlana, this is what we might call a disruption, isn’t it?
Svitlana Bielushkina
Absolutely. And I’m, you know, I’m listening to Shaquille firstly, I’m honored to have him in our team, but also thinking that there’s a bigger purpose behind it. So it’s not just 200,000 people in Deutsche Telekom; it has so much knowledge and technology and expertise and experts it’s also something about society and giving back to people now who are out there and sharing knowledge with the outer world.
Hanne Lindbæk
I so agree with what you just said. And I just hope that the word can be spread that this idea is actually copied by many and I love, love the idea of what you’re saying; that, you love when you hear of it actually being not copied but replicated or what we should call it out there. That just makes you happy. I think we’re about to finish up this episode. And I don’t think we can find superlatives enough. I can only say one thing. Can you quit working for Deutsche Telekom and come and work for me?
Shakil
When I turn 100. So after retirement; it’s not that far away, I will come join you.
Hanne Lindbæk
Hahaha. It’s been a pleasure Shakil, best of luck. Stay strong, stay safe, and hope we’ll see you again sometime. Thank you!
