Where does technology meet people and where talent meets technology?
So here we are with our third podcast episode where we focus on future tech talents. Hosts Svitlana and Hanne ask Borislav Tadić, SVP North at DT Technik, and Mardia Niehaus, SVP HR BP Technology & Innovation at DT, about how we can outcompete ourselves. So here we are with our third podcast episode where we focus on future tech talents. Hosts Svitlana and Hanne ask Borislav Tadić, SVP North at DT Technik, and Mardia Niehaus, SVP HR BP Technology & Innovation at DT, about how we can outcompete ourselves.
So, what did they discuss?
Hanne Lindbæk
So, here we are, folks, with episode number three of our podcast series, the human-centric podcast, the human-centric curiosity journey that Lana and I are on. I am, of course, dialing in from lockdown in Oslo. So we’re trying to be virtually curious. This time, we managed quite well. This is the third episode with Svitlana what are we visiting here?
Svitlana Bielushkina
In the third episode, we are visiting technology or visiting places where technology meets people and where talent meets technology. And we had two great guests. It was such a passionate conversation. So we had two quite passionate guests. So we had Mardia, who’s the business partner for technology, global technology at Deutsche Telekom, coming from the business and bringing a business perspective on talent and future skills. And we have Borislav Tadić, who’s leading Tadej, who’s leading our technology function in a Digital Commons, welcome to the core business side. And together, we had an engaging and passionate conversation, but just for a second.
Hanne Lindbæk
It wasn’t boring for a second, was it? And the big scary question here for me is this thing of “artificial intelligence” and “blended intelligence,” and as human beings, how can we stay relevant here? It’s a bit of a chase that we’ve created for ourselves; in one way, it’s completely bizarre, isn’t it?
Svitlana Bielushkina
Yeah. Also, there is concern about the rate of development—how quickly are things changing? And how do you keep up with the pace individually? So how do you keep on being relevant? You know, computers get updates. How do you upgrade yourself? So guess what? You will hear much more in the podcast.
Hanne Lindbæk
There are super interesting topics, and super interesting and concrete advice to be heard in the podcast, everyone. So listen up.
Svitlana Bielushkina
Talent is at the heart of strategy because people make strategy happen. Welcome to the human-centric podcast. What is it all about? I’m Svitlana, and I’m coming from Deutsche Telekom on the magenta side of the world. And I work with HR with people. And I have a partner in crime. We have Hanne. Hanne is connecting to us from lockdown Norway, up from Oslo. And Hanne is my co-host for the show. My role in this podcast is to really pause for a second and go behind the corporate lingo. Talent Management, people development skills, technology, what do you really mean behind it? just to pause and have a meaningful conversation? So I will see that I’m the inside-out agent. And Hana, what’s your role with me? My partner in crime.
Hanne Lindbæk
Yes, I have for the last 20 years working for a whole range of different organizations and companies within the corporate world, NGOs, and politics. And the topic that I’ve been pursuing is the idea of communication when it’s life when we try to relate and come across to other people. So the idea behind this going beneath the surface, investigating how, at the core of implementing strategies, lies always forever, the human being, you know, it’s about humans. And at the end of the day, it’s about how we relate to one another. We are together with Ron; aren’t we just discovering how we can get to the core of how to solve and crack the codes of how to make it happen and strive for excellence together?
Svitlana Bielushkina
I’m very happy to welcome our guests to this episode of the human-centered podcast, and I have to say I’m thrilled. And I’m excited if you have Marzia. Her presence with us and Mardia—I have to make a confession, actually. So if I was to make a short list of people I want to have lunch with, you would feel my shirt. Yes. I think the margin is really an inspiring agent of the T who talks a lot about people’s human side and the skills for the future. And what we have to do to change inside Deutsche Telekom together. So, Mardia, welcome.
Mardia Niehaus
You know, I’m thinking a lot about companies and the kinds of things that we do and the track record we leave in society, and I think it’s a moral dilemma that faces a lot of companies: do the products or the services that we offer harm people in any way? And you know, it’s a discussion that’s quite current when you have technology that could be used to distort facts. If you have products that make people addicted to sugar or children addicted to smoking, you know, these are the kinds of topics that we need to think about. Because technology in itself, of course, is neither good nor bad. but it’s how we use it. And for me, it’s really important in the work that I do, and especially in choosing the company that I work for, to know that it’s a company that has a responsibility and that will not do anything to harm people. But they will use the power of their technology for good and do the right thing in the world we live in.
Hanne Lindbæk
That’s so interesting. I think the idea of technology actually being neutral is interesting, but at the same time, it’s being filled with what we as humans can fill it with, because we are, at least for now, the ones creating artificial intelligence. We’re gonna go more into that. But I believe we have reached a point where we can discuss moral issues concerning the creations we are making and how they affect the world around us. And that could lead me to Borislav. Couldn’t it happen right away, because what is love on your LinkedIn page? I think it was; there’s actually another headline; I don’t know if you guys planned this together. But your headline just says, “Do something great.” It’s so lovely to meet you and have you on the program. But tell us about that headline.
Borislav Tadić
Same here. Yes, I’m in a really beautiful boat, virtually and physically, in an amazing group, I have to say, I’m really proud, I can share this stage with three extremely successful women and speak about technology and talent. So doing something great is something that I really strive to do every day, and I’m not speaking about great things, only about those things, which are really so sustainable that they last for centuries, you know, my personal opinion is that all of us, people, individuals groups, we need to try or strive to leave the world behind, which is a bit better than the one which we were born into, independent of female or male, I think everyone wants to leave a trace, you know, some kind of small legacy. And as long as that legacy can be improved or used for good, I think that’s the best possible legacy. So it can be as good or as great as Nikola Tesla inventing, you know, a car, or on the other hand, it could also be someone basically helping someone over the street. And especially if that kind of help, is technology helping a blind person cross the street, then that’s also something great that we should all do.
Hanne Lindbæk
We can notice how the commercial forces are, of course, some of the strongest forces on the planet, and we can also notice the idea of actually using those forces for something good. It seems like it’s not only in your company, but also in loads of other companies I visit these days that’s becoming not only introduced, but it’s becoming like self-explanatory. It’s not the actual core. And that is certainly a change, isn’t it? If we look back a few decades, if you look at the ice-cold capitalism that used to be there, there seems to be a change.
Mardia Niehaus
Absolutely. 100 Relating to the topic that we’re talking about with lawn around talent, is that a lot of the younger people that we all try to reach out to, are very interested in doing their purposeful work, and not just in something that makes money. Of course, that’s also important for people to make an impact, but it’s really about making an impact. So for me, that links very well to this topic, too. What are the kinds of people that we are looking for eventually and that will come into our organizations?
Hanne Lindbæk
Oh, that’s lovely. So the idea is that if we are looking to attract enthusiastic, idealistic people from the generations that we see coming out into the workforce now, you really are nowhere unless you can actually prove that you are trying to do something for good.
Borislav Tadić
Absolutely. It’s basically a common impulse. I’ve noticed that in the Stanford alumni group of people who are dealing with artificial intelligence, we did that a year ago. and it is amazing. It’s like basically a global group out of some 30 people with very different backgrounds and different boats in the context of what they are doing in context where they are coming from. And I think two days after the corona pandemic started, or was officially announced worldwide and the first lockdown two days after we already discussed in the group, how can we leverage artificial intelligence, for example, in order to help stop the spreading of or saving people’s lives? And one of the ideas was, “Let’s analyze the cough samples.” Yeah, because we know that that’s one of the symptoms of Corona. Let’s see if it’s a dry cough. We cannot hear it with our own ears. But artificial intelligence based on the samples can extrapolate who the infected person is and whatnot. And the funny thing is, we discussed it, We made a couple of rounds around it. And then several months later, I think two months before today’s date, it was officially announced that I think MIT really made the software or finalize the idea that we have this cough analysis. So yes, it can be any should be for a good purpose, we can all contribute to that.
Hanne Lindbæk
Oh, totally. So Svitlana, I’m so aware that we’re in two different studios, is there something on your mind something you want to say?
Svitlana Bielushkina
Yeah, I’m thinking a lot. And these days, when you try to also uncover this inside gig in telecom, So if you work for a big corporation, we have many people inside. And you mentioned technology for goods, and now it’s developing so rapidly that AI is coming in. I’m always thinking about two points here: first, how can we keep up to date with what’s happening? Because how can I, you know, be continuously upgraded as software? To stay up to date? Yeah. If you have any good hints and tips for people on how to really not be ashamed of or scared of that, because it’s actually scary, Yeah, to see what’s all up in the air?
Mardia Niehaus
It’s really scary for Svitlana. And you know, we’re talking in Deutsche Telekom specifically at the moment, a lot about this topic about how do I remain current with my skills, because I think the one thing that is clear is that no company can any longer promise a job for life. But what we could do is say that we will support you to be employable, wherever and whenever you need it. All of the research that we are reading at the moment—the World Economic Forum’s latest research that was just published a few weeks ago, McKinsey, all of these consulting companies—indicates that anywhere from a third of the walking population up to 50% of people need to upgrade their skills. But it starts with you admitting that there is something to learn. So this is why the whole topic of learning new things is a deep cultural topic, where people should not be afraid to put their hand up and say, You know what, I would like to do some more training or I’d like to change directions. And I do believe that this will be the most critical topic facing us as organizations in the next 10 years.
Hanne Lindbæk
This is a perfect segue, isn’t it, to Svitlana, because when sweet Lana and I were planning for this episode, today, we were having this conversation and saying, like, you know, unless you know the facts and the figures, you’re kind of sitting there with this feeling these days of like, “Oh, my God, artificial intelligence is coming. How quickly is it coming? When will I be replaced? You know, and you enlist? Yeah. I, of course, will be replaced. You know, we’re frightened for our kids. The idea of knowing how to actually meet it if we are like Svetlana saying here. It is for human beings. If we look at ourselves as software for a second, we’re definitely software, not hardware. Hmm. If we are software, what kind of upgrade is actually needed? I think maybe you’re pointing to one thing more straightaway when you’re saying one thing that is needed. Our attitude toward learning new things needs to change in itself. Is that the correct interpretation?
Mardia Niehaus
Absolutely. You know, I think the challenge is that, you know, many people when you look at average companies, and I’m just, you know, talking about Germany at the moment, because this is where I am at the moment, but you look at the average age of our employees, and you look at, it’s probably 25 years ago that most people have actually been to university or studied something. And that cannot be any longer. You know, it cannot be that 25 years ago, you got a very valuable education. That is not enough to carry you into the next 25 years. Because another reality is that people are also getting older. So we are also working longer in different kinds of formats. So we need to upskill. And one of the interesting bits of research as well is that the lifecycle of your knowledge is getting shorter and shorter. You know, so if you learn something new today, it does not mean that now you have it for the next 10 years. It’s actually about five years, and then there’s the next cycle that needs to come for us. You also wanted to say something
Borislav Tadić
I absolutely agree. You know, I was asking myself a personal question. My grandfather, my mother’s father, was an engineer. So my dad was an engineer. And so and I was always trying to ask myself as an engineer myself, what is the common thing which combines three of us, you know, my grandpa at the beginning of the last century, my dad, you know, he was born in the 50s. And myself, you know, being born in the 1980s. And I can tell you that what connects the engineers from all three ages is exactly this readiness for continuous learning and development. You know, self-trigger yourself passionately to drive yourself to improve in various domains. Whether it’s 100 years ago, it was reading, it was listening, or learning from your master like my grandpa did before he went with 12, to be an electrician in the mines, they were getting cold. So he needed to electrify that. And then later, he was an electrician on the submarine, one of the first ones in Europe. And then, basically, after that, my dad, who is a traffic engineer, developed traffic infrastructure. I was originally a software developer. Now, of course, for the last 15 years, I have been more or less in leadership positions, not so much dealing with the programming itself. But I have to say, what Connexus is, was definitely this continuous urge, from the times to read, to go to the conferences, digital or at the time of physical, to expand your network and this network, not only to leverage it for your benefits in the context of career or something but also to learn from that network from the diverse people end up a network to leverage that. And to keep an open mind, you know, not to say, “I didn’t hear my grandpa,” I met them. And of course, we had, like, I think 20 In the first 20 years of my life, I was very close to him before he passed away. And I can tell you that one of the things he always told me was that, in my time, I learned this technology and this kind of technique, and my dad said that, like, your dad also learned this new method. But the thing is, we kept an open mind to the new technologies. And like you, Mario said perfectly in five years, who knows what we’re going to have, you know, like, I can remember still things I was personally learning at the University of software, I was proud to back then, like knowing 30 programming languages, I can tell you, from those 30, I think only five with modifications are relevant today. Yeah, and it was not long ago; it was basically a couple of years ago. So this is a really huge, huge need to keep an open mind to continuously learn and develop, and basically to be proactive and not expect that the company or the universities will just give you something in your hands and say, “Do that,” but just to use all the opportunities you have.
Hanne Lindbæk
I love this point. So to try and kind of bottom line, what we’re saying here, coming into work every day, and just doing what you did yesterday, is not good enough, is no longer gonna cut it. That to me brings us back to this level of, like, what mindset do I need to have to be a talent in any organization these days? And what you’re pointing out is that the mindset I need to bring needs to be pretty resilient to change. I need to be able to throw away the ideas from yesterday without falling apart or going, “Oh, my God, all the stuff I knew is gone.” And I need to be able to embrace learning new stuff, am I right?
Mardia Niehaus
And I think the other reality is that, as a company, we are finding that our industry is changing so rapidly that the kinds of skills that we need don’t exist in the company because we didn’t focus early enough on some of that learning that we are now doing and have been doing for the last two years. But you know, it’s an enormous amount of time that it will take to make sure that we are there. And then, when you go and look outside for the skills, you will find that you don’t have the classic competitors any longer. You know, so it’s not if you’re in the telco industry, that you only have the Vodafone’s or the or, you know, any of these companies to worry about every single company now, all the Gullfoss small startups need data scientists, they need software developers, so the whole world is moving to that space. So suddenly, that skill is needed everywhere, and we are competing everywhere for these skills. So, we need to find a solution internally as well. Of course, it will not only come from that, but I think the one thing that we are realizing more and more is that nearly 50% of the gap in skills will have to come through reskilling or upskilling. And this is, for me, the challenge that we are facing, especially in this industry’s transition to becoming a software telco, in our kind of industry specifically.
Borislav Tadić
The great example is also the change which is happening within the network technology, you know, like switching people who are working mostly with copper based technologies for years and decades. Yeah, now suddenly we are focused on FTTH (fibre to the home). And basically everyone needs to learn these new technologies. And basically there are not many profiles, which will remain the same in the future. Yeah, so there were some people who knew both technologies and were dealing either their technicians in or people who are mentors, or people who are doing the planning and the communication process. However, in every part of the value chain, there’s something new there’s a new tool, there is a new system, there’s a new technology or new method which let’s say add speed or lowers the cost then there’s aspects of doing physically the work you know that for me switching from the it where I started, basically in order to telecom over different functions then to net NT, I can tell you I was scared as hell thinking like, what do I know about splicing or about, you know, the CIO digging or so and I have to, of course, had to look at my more experienced colleagues from the other regions and the other parts of technology to learn from them. But I can tell you that I’ve seen so many great people in the organization, independent of their grade and level, who perfectly developed and acquired these new skills in a short time because they were simply not afraid. They said, “I’m magenta,” you know, like, “I will make it,” and they did it.
Hanne Lindbæk
I’m going to barge in there, Boris, and just remind us that we are with Deutsche Telekom. That’s what we’re visiting here. And the idea of that industry, like the copper-based and the 5G, and all of this terminology coming out is, of course, your journey at this moment in time, and the telecom industry, for sure, is one of them, like the industries on the planet, that are going through a major change right now, am I right?
Mardia Niehaus
It’s massive. I mean, we, you know, with the whole implementation of a network, this aggregation strategy, it opened an entirely new area of skills, cloud clarification skills, automation skills, we kind of when we looked at the kind of skills, we divided it in different groups, the kinds of skills that we need here. And the first group was a group of facilitators. And these are skills like Scrum Masters, design thinking experts, design thinking coaches, and release train engineers; these are the kinds of skills that we need more of to guide the organization through an agile journey. And this could be specifically in the IT space, but also in any of the other spaces where we conduct huge projects, then we’ve got the engineering roles, which is where we see massively software engineering data scientists, DevOps engineers, experienced designers more and more, you know, if we are customer facing in the way that we are, we want to make fans of customers, we are saying in Germany now and, and we really, really want to make sure that we understand and that we increase the experience of our customer, then we need these people with this kind of skill, which is now in huge demand. And the third is something that you alluded to, which is around architectural roles. You know, what are these kinds of things? It’s decoupling its API. Sorry, I know, I have microservices, you know, that, that? And it’s this: how do we build this architecture to ensure that we become the software I stand for? So it really can be overwhelming at times.
Svitlana Bielushkina
And what am I hearing, Mardia, when you’re saying that, you know, software-based is how core leading European telcos operate, and all these technical skills we need to have for the future mean that, actually, IV is really becoming an expertise-driven company, more than we know. We were more leadership-driven; you know, we’re on the leadership front. And the more we talk, the more I see that the experts, you know, need to shine. Would you agree to that?
Borislav Tadić
Yes. I mean, it’s, it has to be a blend, you know, it’s interesting, what we’re blending, currently, we’re blending our experts, people who have long-term experience in different things, like let’s say it planning, network planning, project management, software development, etc, with people who have skills which we need in order to make our customers to the fans. And I think it’s a fantastic idea and the vision, and with the third thing, which is automation, AI, and everything else. So basically, the third kind of, let’s say, actors in this game, and I think it’s very important that we enable the people to embrace that, you know, when I’m looking about how we’re planning in, say, in a year, I expect to lead us in a year, we’ll be done with our FTTH factory, which will enable us to automate the planning and documentation process and many other steps in our value chain building, you know, getting our fiber optics to the customer. Up until now, it was done manually, not with a pen and pencil but with the people sitting in front of the documentation or planning systems. GE is doing that manually. So now they’re asking themselves, “Am I a great talent?” I’m a great expert; what do I do next? What’s my next step? You know, and we explain that look, whatever the machine produces, whatever the robot produces, you’ll be of course faster, and it’ll be higher and better in scale. But still, some things you have to correct some things you have to do a quality assurance with some things you have to strategically as you mentioned earlier, you have to strategically look at and think, Is this something that we need to adapt? Or how can we can how can we adapt this so that it’s even better for the customer? Because, as you know, a machine that is mapping an area doesn’t know that when it passes a building, that building might be an orphanage or a senior home, where we need to make sure that the connection, especially now in Corona times, is enabled so that they can communicate with their families or the outside world. So that’s exactly where this human intelligence comes in and blends these three different profiles.
Mardia Niehaus
So I just took the time to answer that as well. So we obviously need these really great experts, but then you have to put the human-centeredness there. You have to still look at the interpretation, and every single person actually within the company needs to understand that they have to ask these kinds of questions: What value do I add? to this process? Yeah, so even if I’m in a corporate function or a support function, this doesn’t mean we don’t need anyone who is not a super technical expert. But for example, in HR, we need people who understand data analytics, and who understand what to do with it and can ask the CIO, what questions so if only desired body of us, you know, in our areas need to add this little bit of technology expertise, together with the whole experience of empathy, of listening of understanding what the customer wants.
Svitlana Bielushkina
So technology is no longer function is something that unites in the way the whole company together, right?
Hanne Lindbæk
I’m super fascinated by your conversation. Trying to look at this from the outside in, you strike me as a company at the very, very peak of exploring the potential of the new technologies coming into the corporate world. And at the same time, you are right now pointing to all the human mindsets, skills, and perspectives that still seem to be needed. And if I understand you correctly, Marya, you’re saying that it’s the blend? Also, Boris, you’re saying it too. It’s in the mix? It’s in the cross-functional cross expertise fields in the mix, that that’s where the exciting stuff happens. So, more about that?
Mardia Niehaus
And that is the danger, Hannah, is that actually, the research that we’ve seen now is that around 75% of companies are offering opportunities to employees, you know, for learning for upskilling for training, but we only see an uptake of about 40%. And I’m seeing it personally store. We are the first movers. And I’m very proud of those guys. I have to say so to everybody else who jumped into the first academies: I’m so proud of them, because it was hard. They had to leave because these were people who said, “I’m leaving my current job; I’m going into a new job that I don’t really know; I don’t even know what it’s going to be.” So there are people, for sure, who are prepared to do that. But unfortunately, we don’t have everybody there yet.
Hanne Lindbæk
I would be really curious. Do you have any age demographics? 30? Who are the ones who are actually doing it?
Mardia Niehaus
Well, it’s, you know, actually a mix. It’s interesting. We are obviously, as far as companies go, a slightly more mature company, if I can say it like that. So so, you know, so, so January, so I must say what I found in our groups of people who went for the data analytics and the software Academy, they were mature people. So it was a mix of young and old. We didn’t find that it was only the younger people who didn’t know. But we will have to find a way to connect with people so that they understand the challenge that will come our way if we don’t jump into these opportunities. Exactly.
Borislav Tadić
And we need to serve as an example. That’s why I’ve really convinced them that I cannot move several thousand people in my organization. If I just tell them to please go and do the online courses, do the upskilling, and go to the programs, I have to show, by myself and my leadership team, of course, that we are also taking regular qualification programs and measures that we are also improving ourselves on a daily, weekly, or monthly basis. Before I can, let’s say sell that to the people, you know, it’s very important that we start. And we are then through that more trustworthy, as we say, what’s our personal development journey? When and how do we then correlate that with the success of the rest of the organization? What were our gaps, and we have great cooperation there? We know our gaps, and we know our demographic structure. So we know what we have to do; we just need to enable this boat by example. And then, of course, when it comes to giving space, let’s not forget that coming now from the operational business, very often the employees are asking, “When will I do it?” You know, when I look at my tasks, even if I do them from seven in the morning until seven in the evening, I will still be overbooked. Exactly. When do I go and take, let’s say, one, two, or five days of training, and do we, as leaders and as an organization, need to enable them so that they can participate in upskilling and reskilling programs?
Hanne Lindbæk
Boris, I love what you’re saying there; I have to ask it of you straight away. What was your last learning initiative? What did you do for yourself?
Borislav Tadić
Actually, I did shopfloor management, which is one method within the Lean management approach, which we’re introducing now in the factory. And yes, I got it from the management summaries and everything. And I said, like, yeah, of course, I can do it, you know, like the typical, you know, like, sovereign, you know, like, can do it. But on the other hand, I said, “Yes, I know it from the slides, but I want to experience it; I want to go through the simulation of the shopfloor talks.” So honestly, it was extremely hard to have to say, to carve out three Mondays, I think I did three, Monday’s three hours, which is in this year, really a luxury, I carved them out, yes, I was a bit distracted, but I was proud of myself again, for being able to go with the I was sitting there with the experts, with people from the organization from different regions, you know, it was not here Cubase you know, like old levels. And honestly, I participate in discussion. And add to that, not only did I learn about the shopfloor management method, which is actually quite exciting, you know, to have metadata suggested to every operational unit, but I also learned what the people think about this upskilling. What did people think about the metal so that I could apply that, you know, in order to improve the organization and the introduction of this new metal? I can warmly recommend that. But honestly, if I am fair to myself, I should have done more. No, I should have done some other training this year. Corona came by, you know.
Svitlana Bielushkina
And I’m just that, you know, in terms of why people, not 100% yet know, applying, you know, you have a cue for people rolling into that. I think it’s difficult to human size about that. It’s actually scary.
Mardia Niehaus
Svitlana, just on that topic, we looked at that when we chose this first group of people to become software engineers. Now you have to know these people, who have never done programming in their lives before that. Now they went on this program; it was full-time for six months, and then there was some project work. And the biggest thing that we discovered—you must remember that when I’m, say, 45 years old, I’ve built my career at Deutsche Telekom. And I was successful at a middle management layer or at the team leader level in my previous role. So I’ve earned my bread with that. You know, people recognize me as an expert. Now I’m stepping into a world where I will be a beginner. Because when you come out of this training, you’re just a beginner. I mean, when you talk about software, develop this back end, front end, there are so many different specialties that you need to go into. So people feel that coming out of that, they’re beginners, and that’s quite a big topic to get your head around. And you never mentioned that, and that’s quite a big thing that I think stands in the way of people jumping into that.
Hanne Lindbæk
Sorry to interrupt the conversation then the direction we’re taking Now, part of what you’re saying, Mardia, is that when I have a long CV or a long track record in one field, that’s going to feel somehow like leverage, like I have some kind of monthly status, and then all of a sudden I have to let that go and feel like a baby again. Yes, that would be very scary in itself and then what your I just wanted to go back to Boris I think it’s so lovely to put what you’re saying that not only do we have to role model but actually we need to know what it’s like as leaders now we need to know what it’s like from the inside to do these learning programs and understand the new stuff and that brings me to one fact because that’s what I find when I tried to do the same I tried to challenge myself I tried to like learn new things all the time and I sometimes it’s really hard. It is learning is hard. And like you said, it comes up against prioritizing our busy lives, and wanting to do a good job even.
Borislav Tadić
Hanne, don’t forget one point that Mardia made, which is extremely important and not an easy problem to solve. Many people who are successful in their roles independently whether they are team heads, or even senior experts, or some are then later executives, what they have sometimes as a topic is dignity or ego or something. It’s not a problem, the sense of being like that it’s pathological. It’s just the problem that someone like you said, has to be a beginner. So how did we try to tackle that? Yeah. So is to see if we branded as official training where you start as a beginner, and as a total expert, some people would say, Why would I go to that, you know, that would be like an under my level, or under my dignity, you know, but if we say, Look, this is an interesting opportunity go there because there are lots of ways how we can learn in nonformal environments, from the people through peers going into the, for example, discussions, outside of also the telecom within tech, community, engineer, communities, etc, are meant associations. And if we give them that, they will be more open, because they’ll see that there’s no typical development path. But here’s a clear impulse I can reach in wind from these kinds of discussions. And they were quite positive. You know.
Mardia Niehaus
Constant journey, lifelong journey. Forever. Yeah.
Svitlana Bielushkina
And I think this is a really good phrase to sum up our conversation because I think what it took for myself out of this, you know, human-centric conversation that is the lifelong learning is for the lifetime is continuously changing how to really continue to learn and learn how to learn and unlearn. and it’s not easy. And we, as an organization, have to support that process for our people who are spending time with us in the tea. We are building up a talent hub, which is the new approach to talent management, and we want to have more discussions about what it means for technical talent, what it means for commercial talent, what it means for leadership talent, what it means for support functions, and how we are changing in here. It’s very easy to check out what the talent hub is all about. It’s available young, just know type talent hub. And we will also be sharing more experiences and insights externally as well. Thank you very much, Boris. Thank you very much, Mardia. It felt like one minute.